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Author Topic: CAN ANYONE TELL ME!!!......  (Read 18921 times)
tad3790
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« on: December 11, 2007, 02:55:02 PM »

Is there still a an active copyright to the gameplan pins as far as art goes? Is it a fair ball to repro back glasses? How do I find out??
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vinito
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 03:14:16 PM »

One thing I know for certain is if you want to reproduce one or many for your own use then you have every right to do so (Though Kinko's might argue with you since they are paranoid about it).

Doing them up to sell is a whole 'nuther thing, but my guess (only a guess, mind you) is that it would probably take a while, if ever, for red flags to be raised even IF there was a copyright in force. Of course it would be better to just know beforehand but I have no idea where to go for that.
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tad3790
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 03:27:48 PM »

That is what I thought as well. I am turning into a pinball enthusiest, and I happen to own a 25,000 square foot digital, and screen printing company. We can do these glasses, but.... you know how it is.... can't gamble on legality, or invest a bunch of time and money chasing a ghost.
I have a Coney with a bad glass, I found and bought a glass that is also peeling, but not too bad yet. I shot it at 16 bit, 300ppi in our studio so I can retouch the damage and seperate if I can verify legality. Based on the story I read about gameplan, not too sure anyone is around (in this country) that cares. rolleyes
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vinito
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 11:11:23 PM »

"Based on the story I read about gameplan, not too sure anyone is around (in this country) that cares."

Even that jerk in Australia has no claim on gameplan stuff, though I wouldn't be surprised if he sent a letter. He seems to think he owns all of pinball.

Sounds like you have nice resources. I've thought a little about just making a whole new backglass/translite for a different game I have. The original design was pretty cheesy to begin with and doesn't match the playfield art, and many games out there have a similar problem. Though most folks are into "original condition" and would just scratch their heads, other practical folks who just want a cool-looking and good working game might consider it. Maybe that would be worth researching a bit to give it a try. After all, a backglass just slips right out, so an original flaking & scratched mess could still be stored while the cool new design resides in the game.

$.02
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tad3790
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 09:48:28 AM »

Actually I did that , I recently took a Chicago coin playtime and customized it to an old bar in my original home town for a benefit auction. The glass was missing, and the playfield was shot.  It turned out cool. We can backprint directly to glass digitally, and I re did the play field also... repainted cabinrt, and all new hardware. Had a good time doing it.
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vinito
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2007, 05:49:53 PM »

Wow. That's cool.
If you haven't seen these yet, here are links to two pairs of guys designing and building their own game from scratch. That would be the ultimate in cool project in my opinion. With the technology out there these days, it's almost as simple as learning how to hook things up and learning enough programming to tie it together (oh, yea. Real simple)  smiley

I'd like to do that someday. That's really cool that you can print directly to glass. I've never heard of anyone doing that.

The links:
http://www.kendallvanpool.com/Caploungepinball/
http://www.users.on.net/~spaners/Coconut%20Island/index.html

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tad3790
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2007, 09:45:46 AM »

thanks for the links. that is neat! Yea, the ability to print U.V. inks onto a hole bunch of rigid materials, including glass is beginning to filter down into the smaller sign shops. It started a few years ago with larger printers. We have a Durst, it's built in Austria. Ours was $430K.... but now they can be bought in the $100k range. The cheaper ones are very slow, but they can still bang out pinball glass like nobodies business! The key is a good digital file, that is the other more difficult part of the equation.... oh yea...and make sure you don't get sued too!
That would be way cool to design and build a pin,.... Im just lacking a bit of know how in electronics,.....and TIME.
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Pinball Shark
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2007, 12:39:16 PM »

I've never been contact by anybody regarding copyrights of Gameplan and I've had this site going since '01. I used a ton of info from the service manuals in the book that's for sale on this site. Nobody seems to care and/or the copyrights have simply expired if there were any. Especially since the company had been out-of-business for almost 23 years.

I need a backglass for a Williams Blacknight. How about making me one of those? lol.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 11:29:49 AM by Brady Miller » Logged

tad3790
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2007, 10:08:41 AM »

I would need a good example of the glass. An actual glass sent to me to shoot. A small amount of damage can be re touched... a lot of dameage with missing image area is really tough.  Do you have one?
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Pinball Shark
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2007, 03:27:00 PM »

I have one, but its in poor shape. So I don't think it would work as a piece to scan.
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goose
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 05:46:22 PM »

Black Knight also has a Mirrored section that will be impossible to reprint.  It could be reprinted with a gray, but it will not look the same as the silvering.
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tad3790
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 12:50:24 PM »

That is actually untrue. they where put through the silvering process originally, but I found a process that will give the ability to spot mirror sections of glass..... I was batting a zero, then at a trade show recently for our industry I stumbled onto a solution. It is a product that is put on after it is cut to the lay out, and reverse mounted to glass that looks identicle to the silvering process. pretty cool process..... think window tinting process.... very similar application except it is die cut on a cnc to the design first, and registered to glass. Time consuming,...but possible!
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vinito
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 06:00:58 PM »

I just remembered/realized something. There is a guy restoring playfields with direct ink (which you could do too I suppose). You would normally consider copyright being a problem, but since he's not making a duplicate, but rather restoring the original part back to new condition, it's not copyright infringement. He's checked into this with those who would hassle him and got the OK.

If it works for playfields, then it has to be OK for backglasses too. The playfields are sanded down to wood then primed & painted white, so it's no different than scraping a backglass, which is what you would have to say you're doing.

You might fill a niche market there.
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vinito
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 01:19:39 AM »

Sounds a bit "trollish", but I'll bite anyways. (game of death??? how...catchy rolleyes)
Stern isn't into making works of art. The fact that they are making pinball at all is pretty amazing considering the obstacles. They've been working with pretty much the same group of folks for many years and they have a rhythm going so they can make enough money for the company to stay in the black, and you nor I nor anybody else is going to know better about that than those on the inside, so for you or me or anyone else to think we know better is nothing but arrogance really.

Now if a guy wanted to design his own fantastic game, a real work of art, then I'm sure surpassing what Stern can do wouldn't be all that tough from a design standpoint. Making it a reality would take a ton of time, but it's doable. I say if your idea is actually that great and you feel strong enough about it, then dive in and make it happen. If you "know" your idea is a moneymaker, then make a bunch of copies of it and prove that you're right.

I work for a guy who knows nothing about what I do. He comes in and spouts out an idea, drops in once in a while to stare at us working while he drinks a cup of coffee and asks a bunch of stupid questions and slows us down. I have to take his concept, which wasn't that good to begin with, and correct the errors and basically re-design the concept into something that will actually work, measure a ton of reference points, make drawings, scavenge material, machine all the parts and assemble the thing. When it's done I get a paycheck and, while my boss doesn't necessarily steal all the credit, I don't get much. He actually thinks he took a significant part in building the project, but he's actually unnecessary and could be "downsized" with no bad effect for the company (actually, things would go smoother). He sincerely thinks he knows what he's doing and is pretty good at it, but he has never been involved enough to know what it actually takes to make it happen. He's terrible, but he thinks he's successful. All it takes to realize reality is to try it for real, on his own. That would be a real eye opener.

The moral of the story is, it's incredibly easy to come up with an idea, but to develop a concept into a complete design and make the effort to turn it into reality takes more than you can imagine unless you have done it yourself. It's even harder when you have to do all that work when it's not your idea to begin with and you know it has serious flaws. It causes lots of ill feelings. So consider that when someone shoots your idea down.

When your idea means tons of work for somebody else, you're a useless supervisor. When your idea means a lot of work for you (and maybe some money in your bank account) you're an entrepreneur.

That's almost a rant...
Rant off, I guess...
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tad3790
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 07:20:29 AM »

I agree, I learned for myself "the good idea" is the easiest part, they are a dime a dozen. I hope the game gets built ...it will be really cool. Im familiar with Hidelberg, and the whole offset deal.  We used to be a prepress service company. The printing we do now is whole different ball of wax. We use U.V. inks as well as solvent. We are in the sign and large format industry (www.colorscans.com). I will post results of the Coney Island re- image I have already started. I already tested printing to plex ..... looks saaweet. Once I get density and re touching done I'll print to tempered glass. then apply white, then silver.... I just like this guy afro
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